VPC Officially Dead

Fred Horvat · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line
for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with
OSX 10.5 Leopard.

It was reported here http://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml

It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if anything
a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
users purchase Intel machines.

I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I have
iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is $20
for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU
one could use.

Archived from group: microsoft>public>mac>virtualpc

Paul Power · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 41

On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line
> for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with
> OSX 10.5 Leopard.
>
> It was reported herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
>
> It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
> effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if anything
> a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
> users purchase Intel machines.
>
> I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I have
> iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
> slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is $20
> for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU
> one could use.

Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
support off for this product.

Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
running 10.5.x (Leopard).

**VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6

Helpful Harry · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 324

In article
,
Paul Power wrote:

> On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line
> > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with
> > OSX 10.5 Leopard.
> >
> > It was reported herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
> >
> > It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
> > effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if anything
> > a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
> > users purchase Intel machines.
> >
> > I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> > Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> > Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> > Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I have
> > iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
> > slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is $20
> > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU
> > one could use.
>
>
> Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
> repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
> support off for this product.
>
> Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
> stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
> running 10.5.x (Leopard).
>
> **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
> Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6

The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any
new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website.

VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a
while now.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Paul Power · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 41

On Dec 20, 4:19 pm, Helpful Harry
wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Power wrote:
> > On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> > > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line
> > > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with
> > > OSX 10.5 Leopard.
>
> > > It was reported herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
>
> > > It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
> > > effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if anything
> > > a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
> > > users purchase Intel machines.
>
> > > I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> > > Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> > > Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> > > Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I have
> > > iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
> > > slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is $20
> > > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU
> > > one could use.
>
> > Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
> > repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
> > support off for this product.
>
> > Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
> > stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
> > running 10.5.x (Leopard).
>
> > **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
> > Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6
>
> The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any
> new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website.
>
> VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a
> while now.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry, Harry. You are also wrong.

LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or
G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard,
tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009.

nospam · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

In article
,
Paul Power wrote:

> LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or
> G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard,
> tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009.

2010

pc%20for%20mac>

Barry Margolin · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 186

In article
,
Paul Power wrote:

> On Dec 20, 4:19 pm, Helpful Harry
> wrote:
> > In article
> > ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul Power wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> > > > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the
> > > > line
> > > > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues
> > > > with
> > > > OSX 10.5 Leopard.
> >
> > > > It was reported
> > > > herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
> >
> > > > It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
> > > > effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if
> > > > anything
> > > > a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
> > > > users purchase Intel machines.
> >
> > > > I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> > > > Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> > > > Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> > > > Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I
> > > > have
> > > > iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
> > > > slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is
> > > > $20
> > > > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and
> > > > QEMU
> > > > one could use.
> >
> > > Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
> > > repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
> > > support off for this product.
> >
> > > Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
> > > stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
> > > running 10.5.x (Leopard).
> >
> > > **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
> > > Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6
> >
> > The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any
> > new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website.
> >
> > VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a
> > while now.
> >
> > Helpful Harry
> > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)-
> > Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Sorry, Harry. You are also wrong.
>
> LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or
> G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard,
> tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009.

You two are arguing at cross-purposes because you're using different
senses of the word "support". One of you is talking about technical
support (e.g. answering questions), the other is talking about
development support (fixing bugs, adding new features).

If you call Technical Support, and the problem you're having turns out
to be a real problem with the program, the best they can do is suggest
workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on
the product, they can't get it fixed.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Richard Cardona · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 108

Helpful Harry wrote:
> And hence the product is dead.

VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support!

nospam · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

In article ,
Barry Margolin wrote:

> If you call Technical Support, and the problem you're having turns out
> to be a real problem with the program, the best they can do is suggest
> workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on
> the product, they can't get it fixed.

except that 7.03 came out a few months ago, over two years after the
initial announcement of the intel transition. not bad for something
that's dead.

Helpful Harry · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 324

In article
,
Paul Power wrote:

> On Dec 20, 4:19 pm, Helpful Harry
> wrote:
> > In article
> > ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul Power wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> > > > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the
> > > > line
> > > > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues
> > > > with
> > > > OSX 10.5 Leopard.
> >
> > > > It was reported
> > > > herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
> >
> > > > It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more
> > > > effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if
> > > > anything
> > > > a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as
> > > > users purchase Intel machines.
> >
> > > > I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> > > > Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> > > > Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> > > > Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I
> > > > have
> > > > iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit
> > > > slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is
> > > > $20
> > > > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and
> > > > QEMU one could use.
> >
> > > Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
> > > repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
> > > support off for this product.
> >
> > > Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
> > > stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
> > > running 10.5.x (Leopard).
> >
> > > **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
> > > Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6
> >
> > The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any
> > new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website.
> >
> > VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a
> > while now.
>
> Sorry, Harry. You are also wrong.
>
> LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or
> G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard,
> tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009.

I did say that the "help desk" is still there - whether live or via the
web site, but realisitically the product *is* dead.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Steve Jain · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 835

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:35:15 -0600, Richard Cardona
wrote:

>Helpful Harry wrote:
>> And hence the product is dead.
>
>VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support!

So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical
support for, if a dead product still gets techical support?

A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an
undead product, a double-dead product?

It can't be dead if you can get help with it. In my experience with
VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced
didn't need patches or updates, but just config help.

--
Cheers,
Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP
http://vpc.essjae.com/
I do not work for Microsoft.

Colin Barnhorst · Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 758

VPC 7 is as dead as a G4 or G5 PPC Mac. The owners of those would not call
their systems dead. They do know that there will not be any more new PPC
Macs, but that's all. If the Mac isn't dead yet then neither is VPC7. We
just know that there won't be a VPC8.

"Helpful Harry" wrote in message %helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com...
> In article , Steve Jain
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:35:15 -0600, Richard Cardona
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Helpful Harry wrote:
>> >> And hence the product is dead.
>> >
>> >VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support!
>>
>> So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical
>> support for, if a dead product still gets techical support?
>>
>> A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an
>> undead product, a double-dead product?
>
> "Extinct" or maybe "abandonware". ;o)
>
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Helpful Harry · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 324

In article ,
Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article
> ,
> Paul Power wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 4:19 pm, Helpful Harry
> > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > ,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Power wrote:
> > > > On Dec 16, 7:13 pm, Fred Horvat wrote:
> > > > > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of
> > > > > the
> > > > > line
> > > > > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues
> > > > > with
> > > > > OSX 10.5 Leopard.
> > >
> > > > > It was reported
> > > > > herehttp://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml
> > >
> > > > > It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any
> > > > > more
> > > > > effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if
> > > > > anything
> > > > > a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and
> > > > > as
> > > > > users purchase Intel machines.
> > >
> > > > > I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few
> > > > > Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating
> > > > > Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with
> > > > > Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC.
> > > > > I
> > > > > have
> > > > > iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A
> > > > > bit
> > > > > slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it
> > > > > is
> > > > > $20
> > > > > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS
> > > > > and
> > > > > QEMU
> > > > > one could use.
> > >
> > > > Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me
> > > > repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill
> > > > support off for this product.
> > >
> > > > Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement
> > > > stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is
> > > > running 10.5.x (Leopard).
> > >
> > > > **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and
> > > > Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6
> > >
> > > The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any
> > > new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website.
> > >
> > > VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a
> > > while now.
> >
> > Sorry, Harry. You are also wrong.
> >
> > LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or
> > G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard,
> > tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009.
>
> You two are arguing at cross-purposes because you're using different
> senses of the word "support". One of you is talking about technical
> support (e.g. answering questions), the other is talking about
> development support (fixing bugs, adding new features).
>
> If you call Technical Support, and the problem you're having turns out
> to be a real problem with the program, the best they can do is suggest
> workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on
> the product, they can't get it fixed.

And hence the product is dead.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Richard Cardona · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 108

Steve Jain wrote:
> So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical
> support for,

A dead, unsupported product.

Not abandonware, as you still have to have a license to run it.
Microsoft still owns and presumably enforces the intellectual property
rights contained in these products, e.g. patents, trademarks, etc.

> if a dead product still gets techical support?

An end-of-life product in maintenance support.

> A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an
> undead product, a double-dead product?

Software is not truly dead, until there are no runnable instances, i.e
all of the original hardware is gone or even the execution environments
capable of running the product are gone. Then it's pretty dead or at
lest the execution bits are in deep hiberation.

> It can't be dead if you can get help with it. In my experience with
> VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced
> didn't need patches or updates, but just config help.

You can still get help for CP/M, DOS, OS/2, Windows 98 - which are in
various states of decomposition. I believe some of those products had
configuration issues too.

C-3PO: You will therefore be taken to the Dune Sea, and cast into the
pit of Carkoon, the nesting place of the all-powerful Sarlaac.

Han Solo: Doesn't sound so bad.

C-3PO: In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering
as you are slowly digested over a thousand years.

Richard: Sounds a bit like how Microsoft products die.

Barry Margolin · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 186

In article ,
Steve Jain wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:35:15 -0600, Richard Cardona
> wrote:
>
> >Helpful Harry wrote:
> >> And hence the product is dead.
> >
> >VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support!
>
> So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical
> support for, if a dead product still gets techical support?
>
> A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an
> undead product, a double-dead product?
>
> It can't be dead if you can get help with it. In my experience with
> VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced
> didn't need patches or updates, but just config help.

I used to work for Symantec, as a senior technical support engineer for
Symantec Gateway Security and Symantec Enterprise Firewall. In 2006
they decided to discontinue the product, and laid off many of the
developers. They kept some of them for bug fixing, and all the
technical support staff, but made it clear that they were planning on
transfering them to other products -- they expected the customers to
migrate to other products as their support contracts expired, so there
would be fewer support calls over time, and thus fewer support engineers
needed.

Most of us were not interested in hanging around, working on a dead-end
product, nor were we interested in supporting any of Symantec's other
products (many of my coworkers had been part of the Axent acquisition
several years earlier -- they had little experience or interest in the
Norton side of the company). I was one of the first to abandon ship,
but several others left within months.

The point of this is that even though the company may officially be
providing technical support, it's likely that the quality of this
support will fall off drastically. Most highly skilled engineers are
interested in working on active projects. So the people you'll find at
the other end of the line for a dead product will be entry-level, or
people who are supporting a variety of products; either way, they're not
going to be experts on this one.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Helpful Harry · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 324

In article , Steve Jain
wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:35:15 -0600, Richard Cardona
> wrote:
>
> >Helpful Harry wrote:
> >> And hence the product is dead.
> >
> >VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support!
>
> So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical
> support for, if a dead product still gets techical support?
>
> A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an
> undead product, a double-dead product?

"Extinct" or maybe "abandonware". ;o)

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)